The Harpy

The space game set in the Commanderverse.
Mr.prowler
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:53 am

The Harpy

Post by Mr.prowler »

The Harpy. Its supposed to be Uber common according to the lore, but I very rarely see any players (including myself) taking this little devil. I know it is supposed to be a low sig floating gun that never has to go WF to do anything, but it doesn't seem very efficient in points to weapons ratio, especially when compared to its colonial counterpart, which is now arguably just as good as or better than the rio when it comes to firepower.

105 points buys 3 toulons or a Rio. To put out the same firepower the Rio has to go weapons-free and expose itself, the toulons can sit in standard orders and do the same with smaller signatures while moving faster.

For the purposes of the simulator, I made the assumption of the 3 average for the squadron rule.
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The points per oculus beam for a couple oculus focused ships are:

Harpy:39
Succubus:27.5/30(if cloak is taken)
Shedu:22.5
Sphinx:23
Yokai:19
Akuma:26.8
Nosferatu:28.75

The Harpy is a very fragile and costly way to add a single additional oculus weapon to a players inventory, while it is true that it can just sit on standard orders indefinitely and it is fast, it doesn't make sense in a huge number of scenarios to take harpies over succubi, which are not only more points efficient but also have better armor and anti-atmo guns. The argument for the low sig I can understand, but for such a high price it really doesn't seem worth it. This doesn't seem to be an issue confined to the scourge either, as the shaltari topaz seems to suffer the same issue of being too expensive for its own good.

Does anybody have any thoughts on what could make this ship more interesting/viable? Or have some of you guys had good/great experiences with this ship? I haven't been much but underwhelmed personally :lol: .

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Gauntlet
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:02 pm

Re: The Harpy

Post by Gauntlet »

I've never liked the Harpy... and you are correct, now that Succubus are available, I don't see a reason to ever take one.

I will say that there is a benefit to "target diffusion" which is to say, three targets is superior to two, because it is more difficult to destroy and will likely cause wasted shots. But 3 Harpies VS 2 Succubus just isn't that big a deal. Though in the case of Toulons it edges the Toulons into a "no brainer" status against the Rio.

How could the Harpy be fixed? Well, you could always up it's Close Action weapons, so that it approaches something like a better armed poor-man's Djinn. A point reduction would be fine instead, but runs the risk of making too good for spamming.

I also could see changing the weapon profile to be additional shots and less damage per shot (but an overall increase of potential damage of 1). As this would at least make it a little more reliable at shooting and if the weapon profile was split into two front weapons or such, it allows 3 Harpies to target 6 vessels which would at least make the Harpy a very easy to use "clean up" ship against wounded and weak targets.

Yossarian78
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:44 am

Re: The Harpy

Post by Yossarian78 »

Quick fix: Add a squadron ability or fusillade (seems to be a recurring fix among other factions)
More nuanced might be eliminating the modifier of shooting between high and low orbits (not atmosphere, not escape velocity) like a permanent Orbital Targeting Matrix.
Of note, the Harpy weapon is available thru 270 degree arc. Only the Chimera has a similar arc for its oculus weapon. But not having to go Weapons Free diminishes its value.

Mr.prowler
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:53 am

Re: The Harpy

Post by Mr.prowler »

Well... A fodder unit would be nice to have for the scourge, drop the points I say! :lol:

But in all seriousness I feel like if they change anything but the points cost, then it's not really a "gun frigate" so to speak. Maybe having a spammable frigate isn't so bad considering their abysmal defensive capabilities? Scourge frigates are made out of paper mache after all.

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Gauntlet
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:02 pm

Re: The Harpy

Post by Gauntlet »

Its still a gun Frigate if you split the gun into 2 guns that are slightly better.

Mr.prowler
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:53 am

Re: The Harpy

Post by Mr.prowler »

Gauntlet wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:36 am
Its still a gun Frigate if you split the gun into 2 guns that are slightly better.
I meant touching up on ca/ other stuff my bad.

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NiciusMax
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: The Harpy

Post by NiciusMax »

Mainbe losing the Atmospheric rule and reducing the points? That will set it apart from the other frigates, but it breaks the theme.

Overall I think gun frigates are in a bad place. I've only sporadically seem PHR gun frigates and never seen or used any of the UCM's

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Gauntlet
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Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:02 pm

Re: The Harpy

Post by Gauntlet »

Do you apply Squadron rules to the Toulons now? Cuz if you do (per the errata/etc.)... they are kinda beastly.

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NiciusMax
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: The Harpy

Post by NiciusMax »

Toulons have squadron(3) now in the TTC builder. I really need to test them.

Yossarian78
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:44 am

Re: The Harpy

Post by Yossarian78 »

So the consensus is that the points drop isn't enough. The Harpy is fairly unique within Scourge for having a 270 firing arc on its Oculus weapon (a trait only shared with the Chimera). Perhaps Fusillade (2) or something? That would give it a reason to use a weapons free order.

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