Area Weapons

Rules discussions and clarifications.
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Feral
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Area Weapons

Post by Feral » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:21 pm

hi, My brain is still forming around BfE rules and I have a few queries, but rather than spamming them all at once I thought I'd run through them one at a time. (my book is at home so there may well be simple answers to these I haven't read)

Area weapons- this section causes me some brain drain:

it say that scenery isn't effected by templates, whilst then saying in a further paragraph that destructable terrain takes D3 hits instead of just one- I assume this means if targeted directly then no template is placed as against Behemoths and it just takes the damage, but if caught in a blast it does nothing?

A Goliath Bomb has devastator 15 (buildings) and is an area weapon- how does this work with D3 damage, just take the 15 and be happy? surely it doesn't do 15xD3 damage? (not that i'll complain if it does, but good grief...)

how does targeting troops on the edge of a building work- again it says they take D6 hits but is the template placed at all for this shot?

multiple shot area weapons- do you place one template per shot or one template then hit the models covered that many times? (example- a Leviathan has a 4 shot area weapon in it's multi rocket battery, i roll three hits- do I place 3 templates and hit everything under them or just one template and hit those targets three times?)

again with multiple shot- can I pour 4 shots into infantry in the edge of a building for 4D6 hits?

hopefully someone who understood the book better than me can help as I have a lot of explosives in my resistance and it is going to come up!

Feral.
"I don't trust anyone who lets a magic 8-ball run their civilisation"

farrier
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by farrier » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:24 pm

The way I read it:
Feral wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:21 pm
it say that scenery isn't effected by templates, whilst then saying in a further paragraph that destructable terrain takes D3 hits instead of just one- I assume this means if targeted directly then no template is placed as against Behemoths and it just takes the damage, but if caught in a blast it does nothing?

Correct

A Goliath Bomb has devastator 15 (buildings) and is an area weapon- how does this work with D3 damage, just take the 15 and be happy? surely it doesn't do 15xD3 damage? (not that i'll complain if it does, but good grief...)

It just does the 15 damage. No crits

how does targeting troops on the edge of a building work- again it says they take D6 hits but is the template placed at all for this shot?

Correct, no template. and the building takes D3 hits

multiple shot area weapons- do you place one template per shot or one template then hit the models covered that many times? (example- a Leviathan has a 4 shot area weapon in it's multi rocket battery, i roll three hits- do I place 3 templates and hit everything under them or just one template and hit those targets three times?)

All shots target the same unit, place template and roll for hits, anything under the template gets hit that many times. Any hits that miss but did not score a 1 still hit the original target at E-2, but no template.

again with multiple shot- can I pour 4 shots into infantry in the edge of a building for 4D6 hits?

It looks like it, and 4D3 hits to the building

hopefully someone who understood the book better than me can help as I have a lot of explosives in my resistance and it is going to come up!

Hopefully if any of my answers are wrong someone will come along to correct. Meanwhile Leviathans are looking good :D

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Feral
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by Feral » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:17 pm

Thanks for the answers! I went home and sat and read the book to try and sort it out, so I think:-
farrier wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:24 pm
The way I read it:
Feral wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:21 pm
it say that scenery isn't effected by templates, whilst then saying in a further paragraph that destructable terrain takes D3 hits instead of just one- I assume this means if targeted directly then no template is placed as against Behemoths and it just takes the damage, but if caught in a blast it does nothing?

Correct- good to have consensus, no template is used:)

A Goliath Bomb has devastator 15 (buildings) and is an area weapon- how does this work with D3 damage, just take the 15 and be happy? surely it doesn't do 15xD3 damage? (not that i'll complain if it does, but good grief...)

It just does the 15 damage. No crits- Now that's what I thought, but it isn't a crit, the rules simply state "infantry units hit by an area weapon instead suffer D6 hits, and Destructible Scenery pieces suffer D3 hits" - the Devastator rule says "when a devastator weapon hits a target with the type in brackets, roll to damage as normal, However it instead does the amount of damage listed by the X value" it also says later "note that if a weapon is Devastator (scenery), on a critical the damage isn't multiplied by 2 and it still only receives 1 critical damage token" which is where i think we both got the impression the damage stays at 15- but the area rule doesn't multiply the damage, it multiplies the number of hits, so I'm more inclined to say it's D3 hits, then each of those rolls to damage- any successful damage causes 15 points of damage with no criticals etc... again happy to be wrong, but also that is one hell of a demolition tool- buildings only have 30dp tops as far as I can tell so we can potentially pop a building in one go if we hit. (why acc 5+ makes sense)

how does targeting troops on the edge of a building work- again it says they take D6 hits but is the template placed at all for this shot?

Correct, no template. and the building takes D3 hitsagain, glad we read this the same way:

multiple shot area weapons- do you place one template per shot or one template then hit the models covered that many times? (example- a Leviathan has a 4 shot area weapon in it's multi rocket battery, i roll three hits- do I place 3 templates and hit everything under them or just one template and hit those targets three times?)

All shots target the same unit, place template and roll for hits, anything under the template gets hit that many times. Any hits that miss but did not score a 1 still hit the original target at E-2, but no template. I must have skim read this the first time round as it is explained fairly well in the book- "Area weapons with multiple shots or squads with multiple weapons place all of the blast markers at the same time, although can place them on different units in the same squad. resolve hits and damage for each blast marker simultaneously" so it is multiple markers, but only on the original squad- I can't just spread the love across the table and kill everything, and if there's only one model in the squad may as well just place one marker.

again with multiple shot- can I pour 4 shots into infantry in the edge of a building for 4D6 hits?

It looks like it, and 4D3 hits to the building Owch! area weapons with multiple shots are bloody good building clearers now!

hopefully someone who understood the book better than me can help as I have a lot of explosives in my resistance and it is going to come up!

Hopefully if any of my answers are wrong someone will come along to correct. Meanwhile Leviathans are looking good :D You damn straight they are! as are storm wagons and Cyclones:) mmm hi-ex...
"I don't trust anyone who lets a magic 8-ball run their civilisation"

farrier
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by farrier » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:48 am

Feral wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:21 pm
A Goliath Bomb has devastator 15 (buildings) and is an area weapon- how does this work with D3 damage, just take the 15 and be happy? surely it doesn't do 15xD3 damage? (not that i'll complain if it does, but good grief...)

It just does the 15 damage. No crits- Now that's what I thought, but it isn't a crit, the rules simply state "infantry units hit by an area weapon instead suffer D6 hits, and Destructible Scenery pieces suffer D3 hits" - the Devastator rule says "when a devastator weapon hits a target with the type in brackets, roll to damage as normal, However it instead does the amount of damage listed by the X value" it also says later "note that if a weapon is Devastator (scenery), on a critical the damage isn't multiplied by 2 and it still only receives 1 critical damage token" which is where i think we both got the impression the damage stays at 15- but the area rule doesn't multiply the damage, it multiplies the number of hits, so I'm more inclined to say it's D3 hits, then each of those rolls to damage- any successful damage causes 15 points of damage with no criticals etc... again happy to be wrong, but also that is one hell of a demolition tool- buildings only have 30dp tops as far as I can tell so we can potentially pop a building in one go if we hit. (why acc 5+ makes sense)
I'm happy to be corrected, but I think the key is the sentence under the Devastator rule, '...roll to damage as normal, However it instead does the amount of damage listed by the X value'. This overrides any other damage application rules for the type of target listed in brackets; the weapon will follow all the normal damage rules when hitting anything else.

We really need an FAQ thread, and a member of TTCombat on this board to clarify these things.

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Feral
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by Feral » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:54 am

indeed- we can slim down the question to a simple- 'how does devastator work with area weapons?' 15 damage is half hit points for any building in the game, which is nasty enough on it's own. The Thunder wagons also have area and devastator so it's more than just a corner case at this point.
Last edited by Feral on Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lord Sick
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by Lord Sick » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:10 am

devastator 15 seems so high compared to all the other devastator levels?
is it not a typo? like it should be 5 instead of 15? the Annihilator also has both area and devastator scenery but only at 2.

farrier
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Re: Area Weapons

Post by farrier » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:23 am

Lord Sick wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:10 am
devastator 15 seems so high compared to all the other devastator levels?
is it not a typo? like it should be 5 instead of 15? the Annihilator also has both area and devastator scenery but only at 2.
It is an L-1 though, so I'm guessing you won't have more than a couple in a game?

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Re: Area Weapons

Post by Feral » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:20 pm

it always was potentially capable of an insane amount of damage (I think it maxed out at 40dp if you got stupidly lucky?), but due to the dice rolls it could also fluff it completely- the change here really is depending on ruling the minimum is 15, which i agree is huge but fits with the previous version broadly.
Lord Sick wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:10 am
devastator 15 seems so high compared to all the other devastator levels?
is it not a typo? like it should be 5 instead of 15? the Annihilator also has both area and devastator scenery but only at 2.
"I don't trust anyone who lets a magic 8-ball run their civilisation"

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